how far to upgrade an ibook G4 system from 10.3.9?

urbansurgeonurbansurgeon
edited June 2009 in advice
i've picked up a friend's iBook G4 they have had sitting around for too long having done something to hide the system from itself so much that its invisible in the finder of another machine in target disk mode and boots up to a dos prompt

that's not the issue i'm restoring the machine to where it should be, or at least the last version of the software as it was 10.3.9

anyone have any view whether having restored the machine and got the files restored etc its worth upgrading the system software for them at all, or is 10.3.9 the last worthwhile upgrade for them?

Comments

  • peak'peak'
    edited 12:47PM
    What's the speed of the processor and the amount of RAM?

    I've got a 1.25 GHz G4 PowerBook with only 768MB running 10.5! That system was certainly running 10.4.11 a little more comfortably but it's still running along fine...
  • urbansurgeonurbansurgeon
    edited 12:47PM
    all i can tell you at present is that its a white iBook.

    i haven't restored it yet - all i've been able to track down is the last installed OS version from inside the terminal prompt
  • BiffBiff
    edited 12:47PM
    Ram is the issue more than processor speed. 512+? do 10.4.11

    Hello from the hospital, btw!
  • peak'peak'
    edited 12:47PM
    Biff said...Ram is the issue more than processor speed. 512+? do 10.4.11

    Hello from the hospital, btw!
    I thought the 10.5 installer put a block on slower process when you try and install (without doing any hacks)?

    Hospital!? You or your little girl? Hope whatever whichever you're out soon...
  • flakflak
    edited 12:47PM
    Yeah, am with Biff here - Tiger will do fine, provided there's enough RAM.

    Hope it's a scheduled visit, Biff.
  • flakflak
    edited 12:47PM
    Oh oh, just saw the Twitter, Biff - yikes.
  • BiffBiff
    edited 12:47PM
    The block is on 867 g4 and lower. So, in theory this iBook should install 10.5 okay. Just a matter if it is a good idea...

    It's an emergent visit for the kid. Pictures later today on the blog.
  • peak'peak'
    edited 12:47PM
    Biff said...The block is on 867 g4 and lower. So, in theory this iBook should install 10.5 okay. Just a matter if it is a good idea...

    It's an emergent visit for the kid. Pictures later today on the blog.
    ...yes, was just picking up on the processor angle and relevance in making a decision, 10.4.11 is rock solid.

    Hope hosp is going okay...
  • urbansurgeonurbansurgeon
    edited 12:47PM
    im upping it to 10.4 i think

    i have a backed up user folder from the 10.3.9 system - what value is there in trying to migrate it to the rebuilt machine - or is it best o copy the non-sysem related files documents music and such and have them make whole new profiles?
  • rbernatorbernato
    edited June 2009
    I don't know if this came with 10.4 or 10.5 but when installing a fresh system at some point the installer ask you wheter you have an old mac and offers to copy over user and application data (you don't need to re-install apps and set up mail, safari bookmarks etc) --- maybe cloning the iBook HD to an external one and migrating the stuff that way might be a good option. Possibly a home folder/user must be updated or "blessed" to work with a higher digit system (just a wild guess here)

    cheers!
  • shockthealienshockthealien
    edited 12:47PM
    I wouldn't go 10.5, I installed it into my iMac g4 20" 1.25ghz and maxed out ram and it goes so slow that its bordering on unusable. Seriously thinking on going back to 10.4
  • mickmick
    edited 12:47PM
    i'm also of the "stick with 10.4" opinion.

    don't forget that weird little Mail.app change (mbox madness) that happened with the move from 10.3 to 10.4. one one computer, i ended up having to import all the 10.3 mail to Eudora, then export it to Mail in 10.4. that was the only solution that moved all the mail intact.
  • peak'peak'
    edited 12:47PM
    urbansurgeon said...im upping it to 10.4 i think

    i have a backed up user folder from the 10.3.9 system - what value is there in trying to migrate it to the rebuilt machine - or is it best o copy the non-sysem related files documents music and such and have them make whole new profiles?
    I'd go for as clean a new home folder as possible. Keep it and if they are missing stuff then you can bring it in then. I've even created a temp account to do this before now that I've then deleted - that was to get mail out of someone else's bummed attempt to upgrade.
  • urbansurgeonurbansurgeon
    edited August 2009
    same computer same problem in that something goes *ping* in the system install and the machine once again boots only into DOS or whatever the underlying system is.

    my inexpert diagnosis is a faulty sector on the HD. is something like tech-tool pro going to help to reformat the drive skipping bad sectors or is this sounding terminal. is there such a thing as bad sector creep?

    tia
  • flakflak
    edited 12:47PM
    Now wait, does this command line have a black background, or a grey one?
  • flakflak
    edited 12:47PM
    Oh, and to take care of bad blocks, you'll want to erase with zeroes (it's a security option). Not that I think that's the problem.

    TechTool only makes things worse - only use the non-altering tools.
  • peak'peak'
    edited 12:47PM
    Maybe run fsck at start up and see if you get any drive errors there, if you do, keeping running it 'til you get no more errors, then, do you have Disk Warrior that's usually more solid than tech too pro...

    Then maybe try a clean install if you're not already (and if there are not important files on the machine... 'wipe it all and start again' (to the tune of...)
  • urbansurgeonurbansurgeon
    edited 12:47PM
    wipe and restrt was done as described above

    since then the original reported problem has returned.

    it literally dumps into white text onto black; reporting system files missing
  • flakflak
    edited 12:47PM
    So wait, does the text just drop over whatever you're currently doing? Or does the machine shut off, turn on, (possibly) chime, and then boot into a command line - where you can type?

    It's the difference between these three images:

    kernel panic
    single user mode
    open firmware

    Since you did an erase and install, it's starting to really sound like a hardware issue.
  • peak'peak'
    edited 12:47PM
    urbansurgeon said...wipe and restrt was done as described above

    since then the original reported problem has returned.

    it literally dumps into white text onto black; reporting system files missing
    Sounds ominous

    Do you have an external Firewire that you could install an OS onto and boot into that, that might help workout if its hard drive (I've had hard drives fail in the past that SMART said were okay!) or as Flak says other hardware! eek!
  • urbansurgeonurbansurgeon
    edited September 2009
    flak said...So wait, does the text just drop over whatever you're currently doing? Or does the machine shut off, turn on, (possibly) chime, and then boot into a command line - where you can type?

    It's the difference between these three images:

    kernel panic
    single user mode
    open firmware

    Since you did an erase and install, it's starting to really sound like a hardware issue.
    i don't have the machine with me right now to take a snapshot. none of the above funnily enough but pretty close to the single user mode - its literally 4 lines of text and a dos prompt

    i have been certain for some time that it is a hardware issue - and my diagnosis as above is bad sectors on the drive seeing as a reinstall fixed everything albeit temporarily. i maybe wrong but my experience of macs with a dos prompt is pretty limited since my quadra and its debug window
    Do you have an external Firewire that you could install an OS onto and boot into that, that might help workout if its hard drive (I've had hard drives fail in the past that SMART said were okay!) or as Flak says other hardware! eek!
    yup i have no trouble sorting it out again. the only way to retrieve info from it is via target disk mode. it wont boot from a fw disk for whatever reason, just system dvd
  • flakflak
    edited 12:47PM
    If it still misbehaves after reinstalling, then you're either reinstalling the problem software, or it's a hardware issue.

    Hate to say it, but these things tend to lead to logic board replacements. Good to rule out the hard drive, though - next step would be a surface scan, I think. TechTool (Pro or Deluxe) will do that.
  • peak'peak'
    edited 12:47PM
    flak said......but these things tend to lead to logic board replacements.
    I'm afraid we are talking G4 iBook too, I only know one person (out of four) who didn't have to go this route with theirs - sorry! They do have form here. Was trying to be more positive...!

    An external drive install might be more definitive but yes double-make-sure about the drive be for you throw it agains the wall (is it insured? ;))
  • chrischris
    edited 12:47PM
    i have a g4 ibook at home, on it's original logic board (battery is fooked though, lives plugged-in now).
  • chrischris
    edited 12:47PM
    what i mean by that is, chin up, yo! :D
  • urbansurgeonurbansurgeon
    edited 12:47PM
    not mine - not bothered

    friend is only concerned he has his photos backed up

    he is now looking to get a cheap pc netbook instead but wants to use it to edit and catalogue his RAW format photographs

    whats the chance that this is a good idea?
  • chrischris
    edited 12:47PM
    13% (unlucky for some most).
  • peak'peak'
    edited September 2009
    I said:
    I'm afraid we are talking G4 iBook too, I only know one TWO person (out of four Five :) ) who didn't have to go this route with theirs - sorry! They do have form here. Was trying to be more positive...!

    13.33% surely?
  • BiffBiff
    edited 12:47PM
    the cheap netbooks use an Atom processor, typically. That's not a lot faster than the fastest G4 ever was.

    RAWs are big and memory intensive. I say good luck on that!
  • MeskaMeska
    edited 12:47PM
    I have 4 dead iBooks here at home (all salvaged from work). Three of them exhibited the heat/graphics card dodgy connection issue - random fuckery across the screen, or power dropouts, one of which i kept alive for a while using the coin trick on the inside of case :D.
  • BiffBiff
    edited 12:47PM
    This feels like a hard drive replacement more than a motherboard to me, but at some point you have to decide that you've put in too much labor/time/money to continue.
  • middigitmiddigit
    edited 12:47PM
    Ok where do i get my hands on 10.4 I have a G4 iBook that needs some serious tinkering too
  • chrischris
    edited 12:47PM
    torrent it?
  • bluesheadblueshead
    edited 12:47PM
    middigit said...Ok where do i get my hands on 10.4 I have a G4 iBook that needs some serious tinkering too
    10.4 ? Whats the RAM? you should be able to go 10.5. I did on my g4 ibook. with 1 gig.
  • BiffBiff
    edited 12:47PM
    Just because you CAN doesn't mean you SHOULD.
  • peak'peak'
    edited 12:47PM
    blueshead said...
    middigit said...Ok where do i get my hands on 10.4 I have a G4 iBook that needs some serious tinkering too
    10.4 ? Whats the RAM? you should be able to go 10.5. I did on my g4 ibook. with 1 gig.
    Yes and I did with a PowerBook with only 768MB and it was fine...
    Biff said...Just because you CAN doesn't mean you SHOULD.
    Yes but... :)
  • bluesheadblueshead
    edited 12:47PM
    "Biff said...Just because you CAN doesn't mean you SHOULD."

    I believe Biff told me this advice years ago before I burrowed into my g3 laptop with a drill and plugged a pigtail into the airport card for running a wifi cantenna. When the logic board failed and Apple was fixing them for free.. mine got sent back with a letter saying because of my "modifications" they would not fix it.. heh..
  • middigitmiddigit
    edited 12:47PM
    mine's only the 640mb and 800mhz - i do recall i might have asked about this before too :D
  • bluesheadblueshead
    edited 12:47PM
    middigit said...mine's only the 640mb and 800mhz - i do recall i might have asked about this before too :D
    Is it a g3 or a g4.. The g3's 800 mhz would only take 640 ram .
  • middigitmiddigit
    edited 12:47PM
    g4
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